Perspective

1)  Wyoming voted today in record numbers in a Democratic Party caucus,

2)  Obama happened to win.

What is the reaction by Hillary supporters.  That largely because of #2 (and I don't think we heard this during Nevada and Iowa, at least not to the extent we have recently), the vote is undemocratic and therefore should be discounted.

Sorry, but no.

Wyoming Democrats voted in the only way they could -- in caucuses.  Much like Mississippi voters will vote Tuesday in the only way they can -- in the MS primary.  Both contests will be discounted rhetorically by some advocates and even some campaign officials because of demographics and those pesky "rules."

But.  Doing so means rhetorically disenfranchising voters.  Wyoming's Democratic voters should count, as should Mississippi's -- not as much as Ohio's or Texas', but they should be counted.

HRC supporters:  you may hate caucuses.  I feel some of that anger should be directed at the campaign you support for blowing off so much resources early and not having enough $ to allocate to these states (what, you think HRC supporters are less committed or you think Wyoming is somehow in Obama's wheelhouse demographically?).  But don't discount what happened today.  You shouldn't disenfranchise voters through your rhetoric.

PS:  The reason we don't have primaries in every state is that they cost money.  To fund them, we would have to 1)  have the states fund them, which isn't possible in every state because sometimes state legislatures don't want to do so (and some of those states are run by Republicans), 2)  have the state parties fund them, which isn't possible because of $, 3)  a third party fund them, which is an incredibly dangerous idea, 4)  the federal government fund them or mandate the state fund a primary, which is a horrific precedent to set.  Do we really want the Federal government mandate rules for a party nomination fight?

oh, and pps:  the caucuses were on the schedule for a while.  it wasn't like Wyoming or Texas or any state decided to caucus this week.



Display:


Re: Perspective (2.00 / 0)

Amen.


"Behold, I send you out as sheep amidst the wolves! Therefore, be as wise as a serpent, And as harmless as a dove."
by Setrak on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:31:23 PM EST

Re: Perspective (2.00 / 0)

Yes, as a Clinton supporter I am disappointed that her organization failed to see the importance of these small state caucuses and did not have a better strategy for competing in them.  I'm not discounting them at all.  They are costing her the nomination.

That said, Wyoming will be a 7-5 delgate split, so Obama only nets 2 delegates.  I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.  It does not change the story, which is that the nomination is going to the convention and the Superdelegates. Over to them to judge the value of these small red state wins and their implication for the general election.  

Who can best win in November against McCain is the only question at this point.


by ocli on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:33:17 PM EST

Oh, but it DOES change the story. (none / 0)

It makes this week a net -1 delegate for the Clinton campaign.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:42:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Perspective (none / 0)

Caucuses are awful.  My family had to caucus in Colorado and if it weren't for my sister DRAGGING my mother to it (it was a crazy process that lasted 3 hours!!)- she would've never voted.  This is a woman who's a life-long voting Democrat.  I'm sorry, they do not represent the will of the majority, only activists.  That being said, Clinton could've done better in some caucuses if she had put effort into them -even though a large block of her base is older and working class (with less time/ability to caucus).  


by easyE on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:17:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Recommended (2.00 / 1)

Caucuses are more expensive for campaigns because of the ground game effort that has to be put forward. This is why they generally favor the status quo candidate because ground games take a lot of effort and the status quo candidate usually is more organized.

This year was different because you had a candidate running who has valuable community organization skills as well as a phenomenal fund raising operation. When you couple his campaign's organizing strategy of "from the ground up" with an efficient fund management operation and put it up against the status quo candidate who has as much funding, but organizes from the top down, you end up with blowouts in caucuses that run counter to common wisdom.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:41:45 PM EST

well (2.00 / 1)

I do not think most Hillary Clinton supporters want to undo what was done. I will say that most people that know anything about politics and democracy do want to see caucuses end. They are not very democratic and they are not truly representative.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:43:45 PM EST

Re: well (none / 0)

The problem is the cost associated with ending them, though.

This year is anomolous. In almost any other year, the election would have been determined on Super Tuesday. So you cannot expect states to pick up the tab for very expensive primaries cycle after cycle when they don't mean anything.


Bill Foster would agree, Barack Obama has coat tails.
by Walt Starr on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cost should never matter. (none / 0)

This is OUR democracy! It does not go to the lowest bidder. It should always be what is Best for We The People.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:20:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Perspective (none / 0)

I too would not ask for a change of rules in the middle of the game.  However, I would like to see the DNC do away with using the results of caucuses.  They disenfranchise voters with transportation issues, those who care for others and those who work irregular shifts and cannot request time off.  

I am deeply concerned that those most effected by federal government decisions (the working poor, the elderly and the disabled) are those least likely or able to participate in caucuses, while the party goes out to aggressively court Republicans for a day and Independents to make decisions for them.  

the entire system seems unique UNdemocratic and not at all in synch with the spirit of what was once the Democratic Party.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:53:56 PM EST

The problem with number 1 is... (none / 0)

"1)  Wyoming voted today in record numbers in a Demoratic Party caucus"

There are 59,000 registered Democrats in Wyoming. Those "record" numbers equate to about 8,000 voters or 13%. Some primaries are bringing in 60% of registered voters. Nobody in their right mind wants to participate in a caucus. I did in 1988 and vowed to never do it again and I can't begin to tell you how many people have told me the same thing in the last 20 years. There must be millions of people like me.

There are also 136,000 registered Republicans in Wyoming. Democrats are never going to win that state.

How can you be so worried about 8,000 people in Wyoming and totally ignore 1.7 million people in Florida? Sorry, I don't get it.


by JimR on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 06:55:28 PM EST

Florida should be punished? (none / 0)

Do you use birch or hickory branches for flagellation? lol

So it's ok with you to replace the votes of 1.7 million people with a few thousand party activists.


by JimR on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem with number 1 is... (none / 0)


 Thats 3 more people needing therapy. My advice is a good 12 step program and take it one day at a time.
Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 08:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem with number 1 is... (none / 0)

Excuse me. What primary brings in 60% of registered voters? General elections don't bring in 60% of registered voters.

In California, approximately 6 million voted in the primary out of 16 million registered. That is an enormous turnout for a primary. About 38%.

In New York, approximately 2 million voted in the primary out of 7 million registered. Again that's a real high turnout for a primary. About 30%.


by vermontprog on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 11:26:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Perspective (none / 0)

The problem I have with the whole "we don't like caucuses" from the Clinton campaign is that it's just based on the fact that they are not doing well there.

If they were outperforming in caucuses, then they would be downplaying primaries and talking up the caucuses.

Look, the nominee has always had to go through primaries and caucuses.  It's a reality of American politics.  The complaining is really tedious.

Obama is just moving from contest to contest, giving it his all.  He hasn't been complaining about the formats.  He's been competing, and when he loses, he loses graciously.  (Several times, Hillary has failed/refused to congratulate Obama on his particular win.)


by Trent on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 07:29:35 PM EST

Do you think the Obama people (none / 0)

.... would be, to put it nice, "opposed" to the caucus if he were losing there?  Do you think they would be talking about fair treatment and the wealth of the opponent, etc.?  

I think so.


by Southern Mouth on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 09:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you think the Obama people (2.00 / 1)

The Obama campaign hasn't complained about the primary format, have they?

He is methodically competing in each one, according to the rules, whether it favors him or not.


by Trent on Sat Mar 08, 2008 at 09:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.